QRZ! Ham Radio 5/QRZ Ham Radio Callsign Database - Volume 5.iso/digests/infoham/941106.txt

Internet Message Format | 1994-11-13 | 26.4 KB

Date: Sat,  8 Oct 94 19:09:05 PDT
From: Info-Hams Mailing List and Newsgroup <[e-mail]>
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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Subject: Info-Hams Digest V94 #1106
To: Info-Hams


Info-Hams Digest            Sat,  8 Oct 94       Volume 94 : Issue 1106

Today's Topics:
                   Advanced study guide & Used gear
                         Bad News from VE3ONT
                      CQ magazine paper quality
                     CW Learning: Going slow. :(
           help locating licensee for freq. in Atlanta area
                       Icom 737 Erratic Display
                   IPS Daily Report - 08 October 94
                           Isoloop vs R5/7
         Kerchunking: legal? (Was: Re: Radio Shack Violation)
                         Learning CW visually
          Looking for: Icom IC-215 or Yaesu FT-221 (2 msgs)
                      TH-78A:  Digital Squelch?
             Wanted: Radio-Modems with range > 100 miles?

Send Replies or notes for publication to: <[e-mail]>
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Problems you can't solve otherwise to [e-mail].

Archives of past issues of the Info-Hams Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives/info-hams".

We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party.  Your mileage may vary.  So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 94 15:54:42 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Penn McClatchey)
Subject: Advanced study guide & Used gear

I have been inactive for about 10 years while I was going to
college (BS EE), getting married, having kids, etc.  I'm
interested in getting back into the hobby and my first goal is
to upgrade from a General class.  I'm sure glad I remembered to
renew my ticket!

Last week I went to Radio Shack and bought "Gordon West's New
Advanced Class FCC License Preparation."  It has a red
cover and is copyrighted 1992.  Does anyone know if this is the
latest version of this book?  The book is basically just the Advanced
question pool with terse explanations of the answers.  Can anyone
recommend a better study guide for the Advance/Extra theory? (Being a
former HF CW DX'er, I don't anticipate the code being a problem.)
I bought "Now You're Talking" and I already knew most of that
stuff....good book, though.

I dug my old equipment out of the basement and I need a SWR meter,
a dummy load, and a keyer.  RCVR and XMTR seem to be fine.  I want
to keep my expenses low...two little kids, one income, no pocket money.
Can anyone recommend a swap mailing list or newsgroup where I can lurk
for this paraphernalia?  I noticed in the ARRL FAQ that there is a
rec.radio.swap.  Is it good for Ham gear?  I currently get
rec.radio.amateur.misc and e-mail.  Please respond by e-mail
unless you think everyone needs to see your response.
Thanks for your help!!
--
Penn M. McClatchey (Southern Aluminum Finishing Co, Atlanta, GA, USA)
Architectural Aluminum. Custom Fabrication. Paint, Powder Coating, Anodizing.
[e-mail]   uunet!safn2!pmm    Am Radio WB4DPT    Voice: 404-355-1560

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 94 15:19:24 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Michael Owen)
Subject: Bad News from VE3ONT

October 8, 1994

The VE3ONT group has just been informed that our planned Big Dish
EME operation during the weekend of Oct. 30 has been preempted by
a worldwide supernova observation experiment.  Although we have
always known that our amateur operation was vulnerable to the
needs of "paying customers" we are nevertheless disappointed.

Please pass the word that there will be no VE3ONT EME operation
during the first weekend of the A.R.R.L. EME contest.  We anticipate
access to the 46 meter (150') dish for the 2nd weekend as previously
announced.  As currently planned, the November operation will be on
144 MHz both days.  However, please watch for further announcements
in the event of schedule adjustments.

The entire VE3ONT group apologizes for this last-minute change of
plans.

Michael Owen W9IP


************************************************************************
Michael R. Owen, Ph.D.                        W9IP/2
Department of Geology                         Northern Lights Software
St. Lawrence University                       2881 County Route 21
Canton, NY  13617                             Canton, NY  13617
[phone]             -  voice  -        [phone] (6-9pm)
InterNet : [e-mail]        FAX: [phone]
************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:54:37 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: CQ magazine paper quality

In article <[e-mail]> William=E.=[e-mail] writes:
>
>probably CQ needs to consider going to what's called a "perfect binding" like
>QST has. i say this because i recall CQ is saddle stitched and the point where
>the staples go through the paper are high stress points.

Eeeek! I *hate* perfect binding. The magazine won't lie flat on the
bench when you're trying to build some project. Saddle binding is much
better.

>putting the mag in a bag would help.

Definitely, and only adds a couple of cents to the cost while keeping
that icky mailing label off the pretty cover too.

Gary
--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 07:40:41 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Robin Ludlow)
Subject: CW Learning: Going slow. :(

In a previous article, [e-mail] (Steven M. Palm) says:
>
>While I am waiting for my ticket to arrive for the No-Code Technician
>license, I decided to do that which I swore I would never do: Learn Code. ;)
>(Hey, it helps defeat the blues waiting for the ticket, REALLY! :)
>
>I've gotten to the point where I can send code pretty good.  I know
>all the letters and numbers, working still on the symbols/punctuation.
>
>MY PROBLEM:  I can't receive worth the darn. :(  Actually, I just have
>a real hard time hearing the sound and connecting in my brain to the
>actual character, yet sending goes like a snap.

Simple, Steven. You don╘t learn code by sending. You don╘t even need a key
to learn code. Put it away. Handcuff yourself. The only way to learn good code
is by LISTENING to good code. Get yourself into a rigorous schedule of
copying W1AW.

Then, when you can copy 5-10 wpm well on paper or in your head, approach a key
with deference, respect and humility and develop your own personality,
signature and rhythm, which one hopes amounts to a ╤good fist╥.

It is very much like learning music or a foreign language. Just because
you can READ music, doesn╘t mean you can PLAY it with meaning.

Just because you can make yourself understood in French, doesn╘t mean you
can understand it when someone rattles off a long, fast, complicated phrase.

There is enormous joy to be experienced in CW. You will never regret it if you
learn it right and have others compliment you on your fist.

With good intent (no flames, please)
73, Rob
--
Robin Ludlow, VE3YE, Editor, The Canadian Amateur. Voice phone: [phone]
Packet radio: VE3YE@VE3KYT.#EON.ON.CAN.NOAM        Fax/modem:   613-837-5723
Snail mail:   114-535 Canteval Terrace, Orleans, Ontario, CANADA K4A 2E4
Internet mail: [e-mail]   or   [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 21:05:16 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Anthony Chinatti)
Subject: help locating licensee for freq. in Atlanta area

I was wondering if anyone has access to the FCC database for Georgia. I
am trying to locate which paging carrier in the Atlanta area is licensed
for 931.5625.  I have a friend who is moving into the area, and he
would like to use his pager down there, and he is trying to locate
the company which operates on that frequency (if indeed there is one).
If anyone has access to this information, either through the FCC
database or other means, I would appreciate an e-mail.

        Thanks in advance,
        Steve
--
Steve Chinatti, EMT
old: [e-mail]    preferred: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 94 17:41:23 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Ken Carr, KB1AWV ; [e-mail])
Subject: Icom 737 Erratic Display

 Question:  What is the fix (permanent) for an erratic LCD display on the
Icom 737 HF transceiver.  I have not called the company yet, but I would
like to check with other users first.  The display does not increment
properly when the tuning knob is turned.  It will go up 10kc, 7kc, 50kc,etc.
at a time...no pattern. The manual says that doing a reset (holding CLEAR
and ENTER keys while powering up) should fix this. It has fixed it in the
past (after more than one try) but no longer works. This is a nasty problem
because even if the 'fix' works, you lose everything in memory! Any
feedback? Please E-mail or post here (I'll bet others are interested).
Thanks...Ken Carr....Coventry, R.I. [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:13:38 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Regional Warning Centre)
Subject: IPS Daily Report - 08 October 94

SUBJ: IPS DAILY SOLAR AND GEOPHYSICAL REPORT
ISSUED AT 08/2330Z OCTOBER 1994 BY IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES
FROM THE REGIONAL WARNING CENTRE (RWC), SYDNEY.
SUMMARY FOR 08 OCTOBER AND FORECAST FOR 09 OCTOBER - 11 OCTOBER
-----------------------------------------------------------
1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
Activity: very low

Flares: none.

Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number :  86/29

GOES satellite data for 07 Oct
       Daily Proton Fluence >1 MeV:   2.8E+06
       Daily Proton Fluence >10 MeV:  1.2E+04
       Daily Electron Fluence >2 MeV: 6.8E+08 (high)
       X-ray background: A4.9
Fluence (flux accumulation over 24hrs)/ cm2-ster-day.

1B. SOLAR FORECAST
             09 Oct             10 Oct             11 Oct
Activity     Low                Low                Low
Fadeouts     None expected      None expected      None expected

Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number for 09 Oct:  85/27

-----------------------------------------------------------
2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
Geomagnetic field at Learmonth: unsettled

Estimated Indices : A   K           Observed A Index 07 Oct
    Learmonth       13  3333 2332
    Fredericksburg  18                          28
    Planetary       18                          27

Observed Kp for 07 Oct: 4454 5444
2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
DATE      Ap    CONDITIONS
09 Oct    14    Unsettled
10 Oct    10    Quiet to unsettled
11 Oct    10    Quiet to unsettled

-----------------------------------------------------------
3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
                LATITUDE BAND
DATE        LOW            MIDDLE         HIGH
08 Oct      normal         fair           fair
PCA Event : None.

3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
                LATITUDE BAND
DATE        LOW            MIDDLE         HIGH
09 Oct      normal         normal         fair
10 Oct      normal         normal         fair
11 Oct      normal         normal         fair

-----------------------------------------------------------
4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
       Observed
DATE   T-index  MUFs at Sydney
08 Oct     1    initially near normal then becoming depressed by 15%
                until local dawn this morning

Predicted Monthly T-index for October: 20

4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
DATE   T-index  MUFs
09 Oct    20    Near predicted monthly values
10 Oct    20    Near predicted monthly values
11 Oct    20    Near predicted monthly values
COMMENT: Apparent ionospheric recovery was followed by further
depressions,(at both Sydney and Townsville) hence the low T value for
the 8th. Further depressions are not expected.

--
IPS Regional Warning Centre, Sydney       |IPS Radio and Space Services
RWC Duty Forecaster   tel: [phone]  |PO Box 5606
Recorded Message      tel: [phone]  |West Chatswood NSW 2057
email: [e-mail]  fax: [phone]  |AUSTRALIA

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1994 15:42:51 GMT
From: [e-mail] (George Csahanin)
Subject: Isoloop vs R5/7

>What kind of luck have netters had with the AEA Isoloop and the MFJ
>clone? Do they live up to their advertising claims?  What about the
>Cushcraft R5 or R7, and the MFJ clone?  Comments would be appreciated. TNX


I've used R5 at a friends. Good hardware, good antenna. Good performance.

I have an Isoloop and a loop I built before the isoloop was a twinkle in their eye.
The loop is a very good antenna for the space consumed. Works fine. The only
problem with the AEA and MFJ units are power handling. Much over 200
watts and they both vapor-lock. A 1-kw version would be real neat. My homebrew 40-20
loop will take a kw.

-G

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:33:25 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Grady Ward)
Subject: Kerchunking: legal? (Was: Re: Radio Shack Violation)

Peter Coffee AC6EN ([e-mail]) wrote:
: >>> "When you kerchunk, it's not really a communication..."

: But the very next sentence in 97.119(a) says,

: "No station may transmit unidentified communications *or signals*..."
: [emphasis added]


To be a signal it must signify something.  Kerchunking is merely
a test transmission.  Of course a particular repeater owner can
ban it from his or her machines, but enforcement might be a little
hard.

--
Grady Ward       |  For information and free samples on | "Look!"
[e-mail] |  royalty-free Moby natural language  |  -- Madame Sosostris
[phone]  |  lexicons (largest in the world),    |     A91F2740531E6801
(voice/24hr FAX) |  run:        finger [e-mail] |     5B117D084B916B27

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1994 18:20:53 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Derek Wills)
Subject: Learning CW visually

[e-mail]  says:

>Mark Phillips x75493 - ESO <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>My problem is that I learned the code by looking at it written as "."
>>and "-" on paper.

>That's what I did as a kid, long ago, and the negative effects of that
>are biting me even today.

   Take heart.  I learned it that way, and I can copy 35 wpm on a good
   day, especially after some coffee.   So maybe I could do 60 wpm had
   I learned it the right way, but it's good enough for me.

   Even now, I still think I see the symbols "written out" as I hear
   them, but I guess I don't, because if I see words written out in Morse
   code (e.g. in QST ads or people's signatures), I have to 'sound' the
   symbols in order to translate them.

   Enjoy!


Derek Wills (AA5BT, G3NMX)
Department of Astronomy, University of Texas,
Austin TX 78712.  (512-471-1392)
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 02:12:51 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Looking for: Icom IC-215 or Yaesu FT-221

In article <36fk1i$[e-mail]>, Teh Aik Wen <[e-mail]> wrote:
>If you have own, or have owned one of the above rigs, I'd like to hear your
>feedback on how it performed, etc. As for information, anyone who can tell
>me a magazine who reviewed any of the above would be good. (I have access to
>QST around '75-'80, and Practical Wireless, erm, quite a lot of issues :
>They're from my school library).
>...
>I also need to know the Manufacturer (Icom/Yaesu), Model, Emission,
>Transmitter Output Power, Serial Number (very important, the local licencing
>authority will _NOT_ issue a license/ approve a un-serialed rig - this is
>the reason why I can't homebrew one!) and operating frequency.
>
>Because in Singapore, the 2m band is shared, Amateurs only have about 4-5
>spot frequencies available. I will need to know what xtals you will have,
>and if possible, for me to get one thats on a freq in S'pore. At minimum, I
>will need a xtal-table (formula?) for the rig.
>
>PS: I've been flipping thru QST '75-'80, and I can't seem to find a single
>advert for the Icom IC-215, can anyone look thru any of your old magazines,

Wow, this goes back.  I had an IC-215 in 1977 or so.  You should be
able to find some QST ads that year.  It was a very good performer, at
least on the receive side, though the rig was somewhat heavy and
bulky, plus it was crystal controlled which was a nuisance then and
probably even worse now.  If I remember correctly it used 18mhz
crystals.  It had 3 watts output plus a low power setting of 0.5 watts
or so if I remember correctly.  If you have more questions, email me
and I'll see what I can remember.

Really though, you're probably best off looking for a synthesized HT.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 20:26:33 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Herman)
Subject: Looking for: Icom IC-215 or Yaesu FT-221

[e-mail] (Paul Rubin) writes:

>Wen <[e-mail]> wrote:

>>(very important, the local licencing
>>authority will _NOT_ issue a license/ approve a un-serialed rig - this is
>>the reason why I can't homebrew one!) and operating frequency.
>>
>>Because in Singapore, the 2m band is shared, Amateurs only have about 4-5
>>spot frequencies available. I will need to know what xtals you will have,
>>and if possible, for me to get one thats on a freq in S'pore. At minimum, I
>>will need a xtal-table (formula?) for the rig.

>Really though, you're probably best off looking for a synthesized HT.

As Tek said, amateurs in Singapore are only given a couple of channels
at 2M. Synthesized rigs are *NOT* allowed in the hands of amateurs.
There is a list of approved radios that a ham can own - the government
inspects your station prior to granting you a license (American
spelling!) and if you have an unapproved radio you just might end up
in jail!

You have to submit character letters of reference to the government
prior to gaining a license. There's at least a dozen more severe
conditions that have to be met.

73 from Lovely Hawaii,
Jeff NH6IL

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1994 19:10:40 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Marc Richard Wollemborg)
Subject: TH-78A:  Digital Squelch?

Is there a way to program the Kenwood TH-78A to use digital squelch either in
rx or tx?  I'm trying to monitor my school's security frequency; but they
use a digital squelch on their radios and while I can hear them ,I also hear
a nearby delivery company that operates on the same frequency using pl-tones.
Anyhow, I'm trying to separate the first from the second.  Can someone please
tell me if this possible.  Please email any responses.


Thanks,

Marc Wollemborg (N2ZES)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 16:56:45 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Wanted: Radio-Modems with range > 100 miles?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Utz Neiser) writes:
>
>can somebody give a hint where to get a pair of Radio-Modems
>to connect a PC in the middle of nowhere to some
>phone-line about 100 miles away?
>
>We are a NGO in Brazil working in the field of demo-
>cratization of information. In this sense we are looking
>for some low cost equipment to allow as well persons far
>away from civilisation the access to computer-networks
>and BBSs.

At that range, you'll likely need MF or HF equipment. Contact AEA
and HAL, both make suitable commercial equipment.

Gary

--
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | [e-mail]
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     |

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1994 14:30:29 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Henry B. Smith)

References<[e-mail]> <3716uu$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Courtesy In Amateur Radio

Ed Hare (KA1CV) ([e-mail]) wrote:
: ... stuff deleted ...
:
: I talk to hams all day on the telephone. When I do, I invariably run across
: regional variations in dialect and useage. I follow a standard rule; if I
                                                                       ^^^^
: can figure out what you mean, you are doing it right. In those few cases
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: ... etc ...

I have been waiting for someone to point this out.

It's called communicating, that what we do.

If what you are doing works, then use it.  However, if you consistantly
confuse or piss people off, then stop doing it, you are not
communicating.

It is my responsibility to make sure that what I am saying on the
air can be understood the way that I mean it.

So there! :-)

73, Smitty, NA5K


--
Henry Smith ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Oct 1994 23:58:35 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Herman)

References<(null)> <36v161$lci$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Kerchunking: legal? (Was: Re: Radio Shack Violation)

[e-mail] (Grady Ward) writes:

>Peter Coffee AC6EN ([e-mail]) wrote:

>: >>Someone else said:

>: >>> "When you kerchunk, it's not really a communication..."

>: But the very next sentence in 97.119(a) says,
>
>: "No station may transmit unidentified communications *or signals*..."
>: [emphasis added]

>To be a signal it must signify something.
         ^^^^^^         ^^^^^^^

A single kerchunk can `signify' the Morse letter E or T depending
upon the length of time one keys the PTT button; thus you must
identify.

Tell me, Grady - when I trace a `signal' using a `signal' tracer,
what is being `signified'?

>Kerchunking is merely a test transmission.

Tests can be conducted with a Watt meter and a dummy load.

Jeff NH6IL

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 1994 17:20:27 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Clark Savage Turner)

References(null) <36v161$lci$[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kerchunking: legal? (Was: Re: Radio Shack Violation)

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Grady Ward) writes:

>Peter Coffee AC6EN ([e-mail]) wrote:
>: >>> "When you kerchunk, it's not really a communication..."

>: But the very next sentence in 97.119(a) says,

>: "No station may transmit unidentified communications *or signals*..."
>: [emphasis added]


>To be a signal it must signify something.  Kerchunking is merely
>a test transmission.  Of course a particular repeater owner can
>ban it from his or her machines, but enforcement might be a little
>hard.

Gee whiz, this is hard to understand.  The rule refers to
unidentified communications or signals....

and you think that my holding down my transmit button on my HT is
neither?  Then tune up, if done quickly, would need no identification?
I know the latter is not true, I suspect the first is just as untrue,
though I have never heard the FCC pop anyone for it.

This is not the interpretation I would make.

Clark
.....................

Clark Savage Turner, Graduate Student Researcher

Department of Info. and Computer Science    1514 Verano Place
Irvine, CA. 92717                Irvine, CA. 92715
[phone]                    [phone]

WA3JPG, QRP #3526, active on HF, VHF and UHF.
Admitted to practice law in California, Massachusetts, and New York.
ARRL Volunteer Counsel

------------------------------

Date: 9 Oct 1994 01:11:36 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Keith Turner)

References<[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Radio Shack Violation


: >> In all the stores I've been in the HTs have been behind the counter or

: > I'd be curious to know what the rules (Laws) are: Do you need a
: > licence to purchase, or simply to operate? (My gut feeling is that
: > you only need a licence to operate - but I'd love to be proved
: > wrong!) ie, Is Radio Shack required by law to check whether you have
: > a licence before selling the handitalkie??

     I'm an employee at radio shack and all they ever told me was,
 1)  Make *SURE* the customer knows he/she *HAS* to have a license to xmit.
 2)  Don't sell it if you have reason to think it will be used illegally.
     ie, customer saying, ahh hell, I dont need no stinkin license..

  I have pt the HTX-202 on display on one of the 'highlight tables' in the
front of the store, (very well secured), and left it on monitoring the
repeater. I also turned the transmit inhibit function on.  The majority of
Hams wouldnt know how to turn that off, Unless they had previous experience
with the 202 or a manual.. So I felt it was pretty safe...

Keith Turner   KE4QOL.

------------------------------

Date: 8 Oct 94 17:32:37 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Kenneth Grimm)

References<[e-mail]> <36q551$[e-mail]>, <371b53$[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Amateur Radio in Saudi Arabia?

> I was posted in Saudi during the Gulf War.  There are a total
> of five licenses in the country, I believe.  Four belong to members
> of the Royal Family with the other license belonging to the club
> HZ1AB.  HZ1AB is on the Dhahran Air Base and is open to members of
> the military and select foreigners.  I received my upgrade to Tech
> while there.  It is a great bunch of hams with a very nice station
> (a very nice 160m rombic was built while I was there).

As a matter of curiousity, do you happen to remember in which
direction the rhombic was pointed?

73,

Ken
--
___________________________________________________________

       Kenneth D. Grimm                 K4XL
       [e-mail]
___________________________________________________________

------------------------------

End of Info-Hams Digest V94 #1106
******************************